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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:21:15 GMT 8
I also feel it not just being lgbt+ You can somethimes feel included or excludede for things which have nothing to do with that. exemple I tend to feel excludede because of my nationality, my education or the background I have. it has nothing to do with being lgbt+ but it still something which matters and hurt when people ignore you, or dont understand you for something. Really? I have no idea or clue what your nationality is. Don't really care even. It doesn't matter I've been around the world. Education? I could care less. There is more to being intelligent than having a PHD. Sometimes what you learn outside of a classroom or lecture hall is way more important than formal education. I don't think everyone can fully understand anyone else. As for ignoring you. OMG, tdude. It is nice to have you here. Wisdom comes form within. Wisdom you got. Yeah I know not proper English but who cares? See what I mean?
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Post by TDude on Nov 26, 2014 1:09:39 GMT 8
I also feel it not just being lgbt+ You can somethimes feel included or excludede for things which have nothing to do with that. exemple I tend to feel excludede because of my nationality, my education or the background I have. it has nothing to do with being lgbt+ but it still something which matters and hurt when people ignore you, or dont understand you for something. Really? I have no idea or clue what your nationality is. Don't really care even. It doesn't matter I've been around the world. Education? I could care less. There is more to being intelligent than having a PHD. Sometimes what you learn outside of a classroom or lecture hall is way more important than formal education. I don't think everyone can fully understand anyone else. As for ignoring you. OMG, tdude. It is nice to have you here. Wisdom comes form within. Wisdom you got. Yeah I know not proper English but who cares? See what I mean? im danish/norwegian, and sure there is rasism or rasism undertones which make me feel bad because I am both seen as a imigrent and as a "non-imigrent" and therefore tend to feel excluded from both places. but beside that I tend to feel excluded on the net because the knowlegde about Denmark and norway is just SO BAD. its like really black and white. either the country is a horrible place or its the best sparkle-sparkle wonderland ever, (we all know reality is not like that and I seen alot of mistakes in many debates and even profesional articals) I know this is a general issue many country faces, so I have abit of a dream that it could be cool making travel guides about being trans in various countrys in more realistic manners. its not evilness I know, just erasure, I would have to explain alot cause people dont know, somethimes they misunderstand or they dont read what I say and just start trowing there own perspective into it and ignoring when I told them. other times they simple dont say anything cause they dont know what to say so they just ignore me so I give up. sure there are also idiots who try to teach me lessons on "how denmark really is" from the view of media, or say I must be stupid because my english is Too bad for them to understand, or get offensive because some cultural diffrence, even if I try to explain it to them, yet if I complain of a thing I feel wierd because its not in my culture, then im the one being bitter . I also try getting invold in other countrys so far my feelings been mixed. I feel very wellcomed in the norway to paticipate in activism. In sweden however I feel its difficult to feel included and make cooperative activism, despite having many friend living there and being there for alot of times. -------- for education its extremly difficult to explain in english since we got a very complex system here. making it simple you can learn by "the traditional" way to go to universaty, or learn to get a job, or learn to own experience. I am much into the last 2 part as I belive living is the best way to learn, but the first one is most aknowlegde and specially the last few years theres became more presure that everyone must learn to get into universatys and those who dont are fooling themself and nagging on the sociaty. I sure dont have these grades using my years learing from experience on those "hippie schools" so my education is not as values and seen as low. it was not an issue a few years ago however now when there the economic crise and its difficult to get jobs, people are being more strick and the atitude for who is "good and bad for sociaty" are more harsh, some have said this to me face to face that my education is "less good" and so, but other times people dont say anything but you still know the atitute are in the sociaty, and I even caught myself a few times speaking low of myself because I got so used to this mindset. beside this I been on special class for 10 years in my first school and its totally mindblowing for alot of people. They can accept it but they cant understand it, and it can be somehow lonely because I dont care about the school but the learning culture was pretty diffrent back then and I somethimes I miss the comunity. I feel abit like I had a cultural shift when I started entering the normal education system, and most people dont get this at all because, well they havent experience it, and somethimes this turn into some accidently ignorant sentence like. if I tell them I dont identify being dignoses there try to pinch out every little detail making me diffrent saying " oh but you tend to do this, and your good at drawing, maybe its because your dignosed" <- (like thanks for defining normal and abnormal and making me fit in your box)or also they go opposite like. " no your not, you should not had been in special class, thats just for retards) <-- (like thanks for insulting many friends and classmates I ever had and still have)Its abit simular to people with mental illness but they just got it 10 times worse because it started to become some kind of statment that "we are transgender not mental ill which hurt alot of these people in the comunity. but yeah as I said in my previous post it just me, I think people can be excluded for all kind of reason, being poor, having another skincolour or religious belif, and its not nessesarry what people say or do, it can also be they just give you an extra look or refuse certain topics. ---- btw thanks for wellcoming me, i'm very pleased, and I agree learning is way better than just text-book education, im rebelious for beliving so, and I wish I could travel more someday, to experience more stuff. maybe I could ask you for advice on this. So far I only been to 5 countrys + my own. but I am trying to save up to be able to study abroud someday.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 1:38:53 GMT 8
Tdude and I have been email buddies for some time, it started when I mentioned that I had my roots partially in Norway and was interested in the Nordic countries. He has shared alot of songs, videos and a few movies with me that have been very informative and I value our friendship. Tdude is also a very accomplished cartoonist and has illustrated several publications there. During our conversations we discussed how he has worked as a waiter which I see as a potentially good means of visiting other countries where they expect visitor's to be financially self sufficient. The restaurant industry always has openings available for waiters and waitresses because regardless of economic conditions people like to dine out. This could be ideal for a younger person as a viable option to making travel possible!
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Post by Taka on Nov 26, 2014 5:25:11 GMT 8
i'm just thinking about how glad i am that i started talking to tdude in the first place... that's a long time ago! we met in a completely different place.
and i've forgotten to ask what comics he writes. haha! i'm such a horrible friend.
did i tell you that i've always been included by people who like asian comics and are also forumally social?
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Post by TDude on Nov 26, 2014 6:11:20 GMT 8
i'm just thinking about how glad i am that i started talking to tdude in the first place... that's a long time ago! we met in a completely different place. and i've forgotten to ask what comics he writes. haha! i'm such a horrible friend. did i tell you that i've always been included by people who like asian comics and are also forumally social? You did not say so, but I think the anime world are pretty inclusive in many ways, I remember when I was about 14 starting getting interesteed in this. it was way before I got invold in the lgbt or queer movement, But the comunity itself got abit of everything, gay, bi, straight, transfolks and everything, sure there where also idiot but you would forget about them by being with friends and I remember sitting out in the park all day after school just hanging out. -- it fine you dont remember. I writte slice of life genre or fantasy mixed with drama most of the time. it depens on the story but in general I writte realistic or something which are mixed with realism and fantasy. currently I got abit of trouble because i wanted to make a webcomic but I cant get to publish it with the option of having a next and previous page function. this is super annoyed. I have tried wix, google website and wordpress with comic press (which many use) but im not good for these things so I asked my friend if he could fix it to me, but I know he is abit lazy so im not sure if anything will happent or not =/ I almost finished the page in wix but its only this small detail im missing for the page to be published.
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Post by Taka on Nov 26, 2014 6:32:18 GMT 8
you can upload your own comics to bato.to if you want to. they have interesting policies. you probably won't earn anything that way, but at least you can publish page by page and in any language too. there's some dane there already who uploads what he says are his stories.
(and i was thinking of asking where i could read your comics. just hearing about them isn't enough)
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Post by TDude on Nov 26, 2014 6:56:40 GMT 8
you can upload your own comics to bato.to if you want to. they have interesting policies. you probably won't earn anything that way, but at least you can publish page by page and in any language too. there's some dane there already who uploads what he says are his stories. (and i was thinking of asking where i could read your comics. just hearing about them isn't enough) bato isn't really enough for me, I want a independent webpage and there are good ones out there which allows you to be creative and share it both on facebook and twitter and everything. unfurtunately its this 1 simple problem about making the "next-preview" thing who keps bugging me. I asked another guy if he would help me out but he couldn't make it work, In worst caise I pay someone to do it for me, My dad is an entrepreneur so he had someone to make his webpage. maybe I could ask him how much it cost or get it as a christmas present. My wish is that it would be finish before new year and I will let you know when its up.
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Post by Asche on Nov 26, 2014 20:55:12 GMT 8
Re: Inclusion
It's funny. I'm MtF (well, MAAB, anyway) but in my local RL support group, which seems to be mostly attended by F-to-Ms, I feel very accepted. If anything, they accept me as trans more than I do myself. (I sometimes say, "3 days a week, I think I'm M2F trans, the other 3 days a week I think I'm making it up just to get attention, and the seventh day, I just pull the covers over my head and don't get out of bed.")
One in particular is about my own age and has a similar all-you-can-do-is-laugh attitude towards the mishegoss we deal with. He's given me advice about how to have a (somewhat) more feminine presentation. We joke that what we really ought to do is to just swap bodies, then we could avoid all the gory details of transition and passing/not passing.
The odd thing is that I have not been able to make much of a connection with any of the M2Fs there. The leader is IMHO rather overbearing and someone who I get the feeling it would be bad to get on the wrong side of. The others are nice enough, but there's the same superficial friendliness and deeper wariness on both sides that I notice when I try to relate to cis men.
On the whole, in RL, anyway, I've had an easier time with F2Ms than with M2Fs. Go figure....
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Post by Taka on Nov 26, 2014 21:24:33 GMT 8
maybe you're really a femme ftm in a male body? or they've just found an acceptable doll...
it's interesting where inclusion can be found. the japan club was very accepting, the people there would include anyone who had an interest in japanese (language). some bdsm communities are great.
i usually feel best where there are more men than women. don't have to doll up as much for men as for women when presenting female.
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 2:39:28 GMT 8
Re: Inclusion It's funny. I'm MtF (well, MAAB, anyway) but in my local RL support group, which seems to be mostly attended by F-to-Ms, I feel very accepted. If anything, they accept me as trans more than I do myself. (I sometimes say, "3 days a week, I think I'm M2F trans, the other 3 days a week I think I'm making it up just to get attention, and the seventh day, I just pull the covers over my head and don't get out of bed.") One in particular is about my own age and has a similar all-you-can-do-is-laugh attitude towards the mishegoss we deal with. He's given me advice about how to have a (somewhat) more feminine presentation. We joke that what we really ought to do is to just swap bodies, then we could avoid all the gory details of transition and passing/not passing. The odd thing is that I have not been able to make much of a connection with any of the M2Fs there. The leader is IMHO rather overbearing and someone who I get the feeling it would be bad to get on the wrong side of. The others are nice enough, but there's the same superficial friendliness and deeper wariness on both sides that I notice when I try to relate to cis men. On the whole, in RL, anyway, I've had an easier time with F2Ms than with M2Fs. Go figure.... I dont know why but I always felt the ftm groups is more easy-going than the mtf and I don't just say that because im Ftm. I been in only ftm spaces and mixed spaces and I been with the diffrent people in the groups, but somehow the drama on the mtfs sides tend to be alot more harsh than the ftm. if someone in the ftm community hate each other they would not talk together, but they could still be in the same room or recomend the person for a activism purpose if they find the person to be good at there topic. For Mtf I had struggles because they would get very nasty comment for each other and would refuse to be in the same groups or work together if they hate someone ells. I tried this multiply of times.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 3:15:18 GMT 8
Re: Inclusion It's funny. I'm MtF (well, MAAB, anyway) but in my local RL support group, which seems to be mostly attended by F-to-Ms, I feel very accepted. If anything, they accept me as trans more than I do myself. (I sometimes say, "3 days a week, I think I'm M2F trans, the other 3 days a week I think I'm making it up just to get attention, and the seventh day, I just pull the covers over my head and don't get out of bed.") One in particular is about my own age and has a similar all-you-can-do-is-laugh attitude towards the mishegoss we deal with. He's given me advice about how to have a (somewhat) more feminine presentation. We joke that what we really ought to do is to just swap bodies, then we could avoid all the gory details of transition and passing/not passing. The odd thing is that I have not been able to make much of a connection with any of the M2Fs there. The leader is IMHO rather overbearing and someone who I get the feeling it would be bad to get on the wrong side of. The others are nice enough, but there's the same superficial friendliness and deeper wariness on both sides that I notice when I try to relate to cis men. On the whole, in RL, anyway, I've had an easier time with F2Ms than with M2Fs. Go figure.... I dont know why but I always felt the ftm groups is more easy-going than the mtf and I don't just say that because im Ftm. I been in only ftm spaces and mixed spaces and I been with the diffrent people in the groups, but somehow the drama on the mtfs sides tend to be alot more harsh than the ftm. if someone in the ftm community hate each other they would not talk together, but they could still be in the same room or recomend the person for a activism purpose if they find the person to be good at there topic. For Mtf I had struggles because they would get very nasty comment for each other and would refuse to be in the same groups or work together if they hate someone ells. I tried this multiply of times. OK so if the other post comes up it wasn't finished. But Asche and TDude. Us MTF and even me as non binary MTF are female psychologically. You guys whether FTM or non binary FTM are gonna' think male. We really can't help it. Or I can't anyway. I can't s[eak for anyone else. It is who we truly are whether FTM or MTF non binary. Full on non binary? I don't even know if I fit that category. More female than male but not a whole lot of stuff bothers me. Yeah, that's a thinker. But this is an extremely safe place so a little community help her. WTF am I? From the way I write which is pretty much the way I talk. I still get confused even though I am way better at female stuff than male. But just from the way I talk though.
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 5:47:46 GMT 8
I dont know why but I always felt the ftm groups is more easy-going than the mtf and I don't just say that because im Ftm. I been in only ftm spaces and mixed spaces and I been with the diffrent people in the groups, but somehow the drama on the mtfs sides tend to be alot more harsh than the ftm. if someone in the ftm community hate each other they would not talk together, but they could still be in the same room or recomend the person for a activism purpose if they find the person to be good at there topic. For Mtf I had struggles because they would get very nasty comment for each other and would refuse to be in the same groups or work together if they hate someone ells. I tried this multiply of times. OK so if the other post comes up it wasn't finished. But Asche and TDude. Us MTF and even me as non binary MTF are female psychologically. You guys whether FTM or non binary FTM are gonna' think male. We really can't help it. Or I can't anyway. I can't s[eak for anyone else. It is who we truly are whether FTM or MTF non binary. Full on non binary? I don't even know if I fit that category. More female than male but not a whole lot of stuff bothers me. Yeah, that's a thinker. But this is an extremely safe place so a little community help her. WTF am I? From the way I write which is pretty much the way I talk. I still get confused even though I am way better at female stuff than male. But just from the way I talk though. its okay, by giving yourself the space you need, you will get the chance of exploring yourself and having the time you need to find out more. We got a person in our group, I first meet her as typical Mtf, now a month ago she annonced that she did not feel good being just female and she wanted to be male also. So now she sometimes come as female sometimes as male, She don't complitely know what she identify as, she call herself a transvestite so far, but she just want to have time exploring her identity, I think the best is to just provide that room and let people experiment and be honest.
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 5:59:57 GMT 8
When you're ready to study and if you want to land in the USA, be sure to drop Shan and Me a line. Housing just might be able to be arranged. My experience with couch surfing in the trans community is beyond welcoming and (once I actually have somewhere to live) you can teach me Norwegian so that when I go and Impose on Taka, I'll know the back story Peace, Julie Thanks, I will help to teach whatevers posible. we dont live all close, Taka speak Samic and is far more north, and I speak normally Danish so my norwegian accent is bad but its bokmål* from the south so it would be very simular to teach I bet. (bokmål is the version which is very simular to danish) I have a dream of going there whenever the money and chance hits. theres alot of place I want to go. I will study English next year so I will also be better prepeared.
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 6:01:18 GMT 8
When you're ready to study and if you want to land in the USA, be sure to drop Shan and Me a line. Housing just might be able to be arranged. My experience with couch surfing in the trans community is beyond welcoming and (once I actually have somewhere to live) you can teach me Norwegian so that when I go and Impose on Taka, I'll know the back story Peace, Julie Thanks, I will help to teach whatevers languarge I am capable of. we dont live all close, Taka speak Samic and is far more north, and I speak normally Danish so my norwegian accent is bad but its bokmål* from the south so it would be very simular to teach I bet. (bokmål is the version of norwegian which are very simular to danish) I have a dream of going there whenever the money and chance hits. theres alot of place I want to go. I will study English next year so I will also be better prepeared.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 6:44:39 GMT 8
OK so if the other post comes up it wasn't finished. But Asche and TDude. Us MTF and even me as non binary MTF are female psychologically. You guys whether FTM or non binary FTM are gonna' think male. We really can't help it. Or I can't anyway. I can't s[eak for anyone else. It is who we truly are whether FTM or MTF non binary. Full on non binary? I don't even know if I fit that category. More female than male but not a whole lot of stuff bothers me. Yeah, that's a thinker. But this is an extremely safe place so a little community help her. WTF am I? From the way I write which is pretty much the way I talk. I still get confused even though I am way better at female stuff than male. But just from the way I talk though. its okay, by giving yourself the space you need, you will get the chance of exploring yourself and having the time you need to find out more. We got a person in our group, I first meet her as typical Mtf, now a month ago she annonced that she did not feel good being just female and she wanted to be male also. So now she sometimes come as female sometimes as male, She don't complitely know what she identify as, she call herself a transvestite so far, but she just want to have time exploring her identity, I think the best is to just provide that room and let people experiment and be honest. It don't look like it came up. But I am MTF non binary. Oh I may be F inside, the outside may seem M but at the root I am Female and would never ever in my life define or see someone other than what they are inside. Yeah, the outside is the first impression we get. Human nature no matter how much it sux. We are all human but... when someone talks we should listen too. Appearance is one thing and I have had to put my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion and I am not above an apology. No matter what. But I have been called a sissy by some in the LGBT spectrum. OK so I am a sissy. Actually I am MTF nonbinary so sissy is kind of an insult. Not to me too much. I thought, "OMG. I'm finally there." But unfortunately it wasn't a compliment as much as an insult. Why? I know I cant judge other LGBs from this one opinion but it still hurt though. Because aren't we all supposed to be on the same boat. Even if it is the Titanic. Sometimes it just hurts.
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