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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 3:39:45 GMT 8
I inquired to be a moderator for the Tumblr page "Dear Cis People", and had to answer this question as a deciding factor of whether or not I am fit for the job: This is my answer: To me, it would be transphobic if a cis woman refuses to date a trans woman because she doesn't believe they are genuinely women. To refuse to date a trans woman because of the issue of genitalia is understandable, because for most people sex is very important. A gay woman is not going to find a penis attractive. If the trans woman is post-op and is still refused, then it is probably still an issue in the cis woman's mind that the trans woman is inauthentic.
How would you answer the question?
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Post by Ayla on Apr 17, 2015 5:04:32 GMT 8
I inquired to be a moderator for the Tumblr page "Dear Cis People", and had to answer this question as a deciding factor of whether or not I am fit for the job: This is my answer: To me, it would be transphobic if a cis woman refuses to date a trans woman because she doesn't believe they are genuinely women. To refuse to date a trans woman because of the issue of genitalia is understandable, because for most people sex is very important. A gay woman is not going to find a penis attractive. If the trans woman is post-op and is still refused, then it is probably still an issue in the cis woman's mind that the trans woman is inauthentic.
How would you answer the question?
Arin Tricky question. There is always nuance and it usually comes down to the specific individual and the specific situation. However here is my quick response: A cis-woman who doesn't want to date trans women may or may not be transphobic. She may be transphobic if she does not date a trans woman if they are both gay but declines to date solely on the basis of the trans woman being pre op. She is most probably transphobic if the trans woman is post op and both are gay but declines to date solely on the basis that the trans woman is 'not really a woman' as she was not born physically as a woman, she was not socialised as a woman, she does not 'feel' like a woman and has benefited/been affected from/by male privilege However she is not transphobic if she is not gay and is not sexually attracted to women, nor is she transphobic if she is gay but simply isn't attracted to the trans woman for reasons other than that they were born male. Reasons may include, but not be limited to - lack of shared interests, different politics, conflicting values, personal hygiene, personality etc Good question and I suspect that there are much better answers. Good luck with your application. Safe travels Aisla
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 5:07:15 GMT 8
A cis-woman who doesn't want to date trans women may or may not be transphobic. She may be transphobic if she does not date a trans woman if they are both gay but declines to date solely on the basis of the trans woman being pre op. She is most probably transphobic if the trans woman is post op and both are gay but declines to date solely on the basis that the trans woman is not really a woman as she was not socialised as a woman, does not feel like a woman and has benefited/been affected from/by male privilege However she is not transphobic if she is not gay and is not sexually attracted to women, nor is she transphobic if she is gay but simply isn't attracted to the trans woman for reasons other than that they were born male. Reasons may include, but not be limited to - lack of shared interests, different politics, conflicting values, personal hygiene, personality etc Good question and I suspect that there are much better answers. Good luck with your application. Safe travels Aisla I didn't have a whole lot of characters to work with for a longer answer, otherwise I would have gone into more detail like you have. You know me, I am not good with short and sweet.
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Post by Ayla on Apr 17, 2015 5:15:31 GMT 8
Being large and sometimes blunt, I am unlikely to ever be short or sweet. When I try it often comes across as too binary, too simple and too judgemental. Short and sweet remains aspirational.
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Post by Annys on Apr 17, 2015 6:07:03 GMT 8
That is a remarkably loaded question, and I am impressed by it. There are several different ways to read it, all of which are revealing of one's own individual bias.
My answer - It is 'transphobic' when the entire crux of the issue is on the 'trans' and not the woman. This becomes a blanket statement that moves from describing her to -defining- her instead, followed by a judgement based entirely on that definition. When the question is so focused on "trans" that it renders any other question or character consideration irrelevant, it is certainly 'phobic'.
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Post by Ayla on Apr 17, 2015 6:12:55 GMT 8
That is a remarkably loaded question, and I am impressed by it. There are several different ways to read it, all of which are revealing of one's own individual bias. My answer - It is 'transphobic' when the entire crux of the issue is on the 'trans' and not the woman. This becomes a blanket statement that moves from describing her to -defining- her instead, followed by a judgement based entirely on that definition. When the question is so focused on "trans" that it renders any other question or character consideration irrelevant, it is certainly 'phobic'. Mina I love it. So simple, so short and so sweet. Safe travels Aisla
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 6:47:51 GMT 8
Short and sweet is aspirational for me. I am unlikely to ever achieve either, being large and sometimes blunt, and when I try it often comes across as too binary, too simple and too judgemental. Short, sweet - but I do not ever recall simplistic or judgmental comments from either of you. Julie You are one of the few who hasn't, and I so appreciate that. You have no idea how many times my words have been misinterpreted and my points of view subjected to jumps of conclusion without inquiry to my meaning. It was a common thing over at Susan's. I constantly had to break everything down so that everyone could understand that I had no hostile intent.
Most people want to view the world in black and white and are quick to emotional response; and, to me, that's one of the primary reasons we don't evolve out of all of our social and political dilemmas. We are too often the victims of Neural-Linguistic Programming (NLP), handing over our will and responsibility to these "motivational speakers" with forked tongues.
A perspective that isn't anchored in some dualistic bias makes people rise to the defensive, because it shakes up their snow-globe brains and challenges their restricted understanding of the world. It doesn't mean they are bad people, though; they've just been coddled by empty notions of "hope and change" for so long that the ability to think freely or radically has been made handicapped. An attitude of passion and ambition that real, observable change is possible is quickly interpreted as "utopian fantasy" — that genuine and effective optimism is somehow negative.
As you can see, it's gotten to the point where we don't even know how to differentiate between what is truly offensive and what is simply a matter of hurt feelings. We've become slaves to moral relativism which is a concept I don't believe in. So, by my challenging of what is and is not rationally offensive and worthy of relentless critique I am quickly accused of being insensitive and hateful.
Plus, my use of language tends to surpass the comprehension of a lot of people, which is really very sad. I graduated high school with a 2.7 GPA, and I can guarantee you that most of the people that are taken aback by these diatribes of mine probably graduated with GPA's of 3.5 and higher. I found education more enriching by my own time as the public system is more like a prison than an institution for higher learning. Those who put more effort into their test scores did so more for the purpose of being able to acquire a job or career; not because they actually wanted to learn anything. I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but it seems to be from the observations I've made of those I went to school with.
So, a display of intelligence is far too often seen as a display of arrogance, but it's not. I simply refuse to dumb myself down for the sake of those who haven't valued education. Why? Because I believe everyone is capable of genius. I believe that by regularly reducing our language to remedial levels will only keep people thinking at remedial levels. All anyone has to do is pull up a dictionary if they don't understand a word, or pull up an encyclopedia if they're unfamiliar with a particular reference.
I do what I do and say what I say in this particular manner because I believe that everyone has potential. The only excuse anyone can have is laziness; or to have a mental handicap that neurologically interferes with their ability to retain information. Maybe that makes me sound like some kind of artificial intelligence without any capacity for emotion, but that's so very far from the truth. It's my capacity for emotion that allows me to believe in people when they might not believe in themselves. We are supposed to be an intelligent species, so I'm going to do whatever I can to maintain and encourage the importance of and the interest in knowledge. I don't know about you, but I don't want to see the film Idiocracy become a prophetic vision.
Anyway, there I go again with the essays.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 7:54:20 GMT 8
Erin, you have a gift my dear, and this is a place it is appreciated and even understood...
Blessings
Trin
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 8:19:44 GMT 8
The cis woman might not date the trans woman for a number of reasons, a cis women's thought process is generally a lot more complicated and convoluted than a trans woman's, so any little nuance she might find offsetting or annoying about the trans woman or her appearance could be a date killer, and then the trans woman may just be an embarrassment or downright butt ugly. In the final analysis it would probably be a waste of time trying to cipher out any sensible reasoning so finger pointing and blame would probably be out of the question.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 8:24:10 GMT 8
The cis woman might not date the trans woman for a number of reasons, a cis women's thought process is generally a lot more complicated and convoluted than a trans woman's, so any little nuance she might find offsetting or annoying about the trans woman or her appearance could be a date killer, and then the trans woman may just be an embarrassment or downright butt ugly. In the final analysis it would probably be a waste of time trying to cipher out any sensible reasoning so finger pointing and blame would probably be out of the question. I find that answer to be much better than mine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 10:45:27 GMT 8
The whole society is transphobic and homophobic from end to end, start to finish. People are pressured into all these phobias almost at birth, and it just gets worse with age. Our whole society is driven by it.. I don't know how the vast majority of people will ever see through it like many of us have done. ? Certainly not by allowing it to go on unchecked. I see a lot of trans people saying that they shouldn't have to educate anyone, and so therefore refuse to do so. No, we shouldn't have to, but if people don't feel directly affected by something then they're not going to give it any attention. So, it becomes our responsibility to spread awareness and enlightenment; and the only effective way to do that is through love and patience. If the cis world can't show it to us, then we show it to them. Like attracts like. You don't transmute the negative with more negativity. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but then that's the story of my life.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 21:25:44 GMT 8
I think the best way to educate others is by what we project in pubic by example as well as when we meet new people. I had remarked in the thread concerning online dating about the horrendously negative impression one trans woman made on my spouse leaving her absolutely hating trans people. Not long ago she met Julie who through her personal presentation and amicably friendly and outgoing personality was able to change my wife's attitude considerably. Julie and I sometimes agree to disagree on some things, but I have to hand it to her, well done sister!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 22:26:14 GMT 8
I'm with Mina on this one. It is a loaded question. I agree with Shan too in that there could be many reasons why that aren't necessarily tied to being transphobic or homophobic. Just remember the whole ideal of gender identity, sexual orientation. political affiliation (if you have one) and everything else is about personal freedom. Freedom to be who you are, love who you want to love and so on. We all have our little prejudices. I mean if I have to put a clothespin on my nose because you don't bathe but once every two weeks, I don't care what you look like. I won't date ya'. Or if your hair is so greasy that it just feels gross to run my finger through it and just flat out stinks, then I don't want to date you. If you hog the bag of Cheetos and tell me to get my own, then I don't want to date you. If you get pissed at something and then take it out on me and belittle me to make yourself feel better or make me feel as bad as you, then I don't want to date you. If you are a violent abusive person well, ya'll get the point. OK with that said, I am bi so everyone is fair game if the attraction is mutual. Gay, lesbian, straight, trans I just really could care less. As long as there is mutual attraction and our personalities fit together and we can share intimacy( our innermost feelings with one another not just sex because that isn't the most important thing) and we can have fun together. That is all that counts. "Why is it/isn't it transphobic if a cis woman doesn't want to date a transwoman?" The key word in that question is cis woman. Usually cis women want guys that are guys. Even though they may bitch about them sometimes. OK so why would a cis woman not want to date a woman trans or not? Because they aren't lesbians. Freedom my friends. Freedom to be picky in who you want to love and be in a relationship with possibly for the rest of your lives. I don't think its transphobic unless they are just insulting and demeaning about it. I would look at it as a compliment if a cis woman didn't want to date me. That would mean I am seen more as a female than a male, Right? I think we all have a vision of our perfect soulmates and that is what we are going to be attracted to. Sometimes attraction grows with time and sometimes it's instantaneous. But we are all human and what attracts us, we are just as helpless to as being transgender. "The heart wants what the heart wants."
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Post by Leena on Apr 19, 2015 13:15:47 GMT 8
YRMV, but my experience has been that if I meet a woman in person, in guy mode, they pretty much always eventually pickup that I'm trans and are fine with it, though my guy mode has mostly been somewhat androgynous, so the women that are naturally attracted to that may have less problems with dating someone that is trans. Online, attempting to be out about it, has not really worked out so far. I might be doing something wrong, but really, people dated before the Internet existed, maybe meeting women in guy mode and then letting them discover the true me is better than trying to explain it in a few paragraphs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 2:53:11 GMT 8
YRMV, but my experience has been that if I meet a woman in person, in guy mode, they pretty much always eventually pickup that I'm trans and are fine with it, though my guy mode has mostly been somewhat androgynous, so the women that are naturally attracted to that may have less problems with dating someone that is trans. Online, attempting to be out about it, has not really worked out so far. I might be doing something wrong, but really, people dated before the Internet existed, maybe meeting women in guy mode and then letting them discover the true me is better than trying to explain it in a few paragraphs. It seems in society that it is a lot less taboo to be or be perceived as lesbian than gay. I mean just watch Jerry Springer. "We love lesbians! We love lesbians!" is chanted more than "JERRY, JERRY". The Gays don't get the same type of recognition it seems. Pop culture is a pretty good barometer of society. Yeah that show does use derogatory names like tranny but a lot of times it is respected even with the bad name. But it's all staged but still the audience I don't think really knows and that is a cross section of society. It is actually sort of like the internet where people can get away with trash talk without repercussions because they will never see the person again. But you also have the Steve Wilkos Show and there was a teen transgender girl on there that the audience which happened to be teens supported. Yeah daytime is slow for me.
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