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Post by Whisper on Jan 7, 2015 15:26:45 GMT 8
I dont know many of the people posting here. It takes me a really long time to get to know people even in person. Ive seen people come and go from many forums. Ive become a bet numb reading intro posts knowing many wont be there next year or I will be less active next year.
Posts dont trigger me.
People leave and I move on. I leave and the forum moves on.
I do know sometimes people post things they would never say in person. The news has reported on the current social media behavior and persona.
I don't know the pros and cons or reasons for hidden boards.
I only know privacy issues sometimes matters.
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Post by Whisper on Jan 7, 2015 15:49:46 GMT 8
I'm probably at fault here because I mentioned to Trinity something Ativan had said via email about religion, spirituality and politics not having any place in a Non Binary and Transgender website. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with any of those topics but they said that it invariably leads to bitch fights, hurt feelings and all kinds of divisiveness and drives some off like we saw the other day. From an historic perspective having been long term at the other site I can say that I agree. I'm a Christian believer myself but quite frankly if I wanted to talk about Christ and spiritual truths I'd feel constrained to click on a Christian website, people come here to talk about trans specific issues. I think anyone wishing to talk about Jesus is free to pm or email me anytime for that. I do believe there are relivant issues in politics, religion, and spirituality. My facebook newsboard is filled with gender politics comments, & religious and spiritual messages despite only having a few followers. Many are anti christian and present their own worldview. I dont get upset when I read them. I know they have their own perspective and can say whatever they want. The forum does allow anyone to post, though atm it is self-policed. Some may try to test the self-policing method. I believe if self-policing is the chosen form, then readers can use the power of 'ignore'. Outsiders may read something into it, but I am pretty sure they already do that. Even before they come here. My understanding is thst policing forums is a delicate issue and prime motive from the exodus from other sites.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 19:29:20 GMT 8
I am told mixing gender and religion don't mix.
I also spent many years silenced, and I have a lot to say.
Just being trans and being Christian is controversial. Too everyone.
I stand behind what I have written.
As a performing artist being censored does not sit well. Most of it is self censorship. Going stealth.
I have to think. Christian answers for trans are in us as trans believers, the idea that the conformist in the church can help is a bit laughable.
Jesus however can definitely help.
I remind you that without his direct intervention several times in my life I would most definitely be dead right now.
I have to really think. For those with ears to hear please listen and share, for those who can't handle it, please avoid your triggers,,with all due kindest respect on our parts.
It's too important. Physical and mental healing on forum is crucial. But not healing the spiritual is to shut down a component of us. And we are Nonbinary, we don't shut down components.
I need to think more. And I will stay in touch with star, they want that, I am happy about that.
I can't go near a suicide thread, unless it is to prevent one, or my own. And I won't suicide it's unconditionally not an option....but there is one scenario....one I fight to prevent...
So, let's keep it open and uncensored. And be cognizant of others vulnerability.
Blessings
Trinity
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Post by Ativan Prescibed on Jan 7, 2015 22:12:55 GMT 8
As to a couple recent emails, a reference was made in passing and then dismissed immediately,... I think it only fair to put them here. They are not comments made as individual parts to pick and choose. They are a complete thought, broken down into explanations that I feel are correct. I've said before that nobody knows what my spiritual beliefs are and that they are mine alone. I weighed in on this because I was sent emails that referred to problems here on this forum. Here are the emails, in full:
A difficult email to respond to...
Most of the time, when people in today's world talk about Christians and the things they hate about them, they are referring to those who aren't true Christians. Has nothing to do with Christ, it has everything to do with invoking the right to judge and to harm others by using his name. I feel just as uncomfortable with people using religion like this anytime it happens. Muslims pretty much feel the same way about radical Islamist, Taliban included. What if people used the teachings of Buddha for nefarious reasons as well? It all gets pretty ridiculous when you have to steal a religion to prove your own personal agendas and to then force them on others. Pretty much just the opposite of all religions, even atheists tend to do the very same thing.Using religion for anything outside of it, tends to dilute the reasons for it in the first place. Nobody ever wants religion shoved at them, most people prefer that others simply keep their own religious principals to themselves and then we all get along, which is really the bottom line of religion in the first place.
A lot of this could be said about gender as well. This country and many other ones in today's world have accepted others sexuality in far greater numbers than at any other time in history. Gender is coming into it's own as well. Even blatant racism, the kind that has that unjustifiable hatred behind it, is going away simply because there are really very few places on earth that have a pure race of people any longer, and if you look into genomes, there never has ever been any to begin with.
You know I've said this many times before, that we all have more in common than we have as differences. It's very easy to slip into that mode of seeing differences, they are easier to see than to see the sameness. Sameness is a camouflage that we all wear, live with. We are all creatures of the forest. Everyone is.
It's true that I manipulated SJ and others in some very behind the scenes ways, I have always been doing that kind of thing at Susan's the whole time I was there. That there was the eventual meltdown when I saw it all going to hell because of the militant bitches there, was the end of trying to accomplish that goal of getting people to have a more realistic view of each other as more the same than different, that the differences that seemed so pronounced were nothing in comparison to just how much we all have in common. I had the forest brought back, it had been gone for too long, it's purpose had been diluted. I was pretty happy about the response to it, so the next version of it was to bring everyone together as the creatures. It went south the minute Peky decided to make it a gamer and in turn made fun of it, and in doing so, made fun of everyone. It was a put down with that elitism that the militant bitches held over everyone there. You know the rest of that story.
The new forum started out as the new forest, remember? No more dividing up the people into city dwellers and forest people. But it didn't last, that same mentality of differences came up again. It was slow to start with, but as soon as the categories started, so did the obviousness of differences became a focal point in discussions. I had hoped that the forest attitude would keep it to a minimum, as there are actual differences, but they slowly turned into the same ones that had those divides, walls, chasms that split people apart.
Then the religion section came up. Now there is also spirituality as well. These are fine, so long as the talk centers on sameness rather than differences. But it didn't happen that way, and soon Christianity became a focal point in many discussions and in many comments made. There became a dominance in sexuality, gender and religion. The forum struggled to maintain itself, but it was soon taken over by ever so slightly dominant people and there views about how their sexuality, gender and religion was a better difference than others. You see where this is heading and where it has already gone there...
I was born a mutt, I have a very diverse background of where my ancestors came from. Pretty much every corner of the earth. My sexuality has always been very neutral, my gender as well. I understood this from a very young age. I've had the privilege of learning about various religions and spirituality from some of the leaders in many different kinds and styles. I've learned a lot from all different aspects of them and they all have more in common than they have as differences. Sexuality and gender are the same way for me, I've learned that we all have so much more in common than we have as differences.
But it's the nature of people to not see the things that are the same, sameness is the camouflage we all have, we can't see the sameness, it isn't apparent to us. But we do note the differences and people try to capitalize on them all the time. Those are the haters, they use slight differences and make others believe they are huge in comparison to themselves, and people forget that we are all the same. It's pretty easy to convince people that a difference is more important than the fact that we are pretty much the same, the same goals, the same need for happiness and love. It's easy to convince people that a difference is a threat to that.
We have differences and we are afraid that someone will come along and take that away from us. We hold on to them like they have value to them. The truth is, the sameness is far more valuable than the differences. The glue of mankind is the sameness, the goals in life we all have. But we are afraid that someone might come along and take them away from us, the haters capitalize on this fear. We all do this. Because it is easier to identify ourselves by our differences than by our sameness. We are afraid that someone will take our identities away from us. And it's a real fear because the haters spread this among us all to the point that we all believe it could be true in one way or another. We do have differences after all... But we forget that we have more in common than we have as differences.
Those differences are our identities, and we let our fears from believing the haters that someone is out there trying to take our identities away from us, the very thing that makes us individuals. But as individuals, we still have more in common. It's the basis of all religions, of all spirituality. It's also true of everyone's sexuality and gender as well. There is more in common than there are differences. We waste to much of our lives protecting our identities when we don't have too. They can't be taken away, no matter how hard others try, they can't do it. You might be able to brainwash people into believing their identities are wrong and can be changed, but in the long run, it creates mental instability. Identities can't be taken away. But they can be changed if you want them to be, and that's the basis of brainwashing, to convince people that their identities are wrong and here, here's a new one if you just go along and believe yours has something wrong with it. But those kinds of changes are the very reason we have so much mental instability in the world.
My life was damaged very early on by this barrage of differences that I knew were of no concern, but I let the haters get to me. My therapy has come a long ways over the years, and it now centers on how my differences can be an advantage for me to have happiness in my life again. How do I let my differences not make a negative difference in my life or to let others use them to make a negative difference in it as well. I walked from Susan's because it became so overwhelmingly toxic to my happiness. The new forum has now burst out in the very same thing, I see. I could see it coming months ago and it was a difficult thing to do, to walk away once again. But I could see and feel the undercurrent of the haters and it was playing into peoples fears there again. I couldn't risk becoming another hater as well, I had enough of that from Susan's. I learned as I grew older to become someone who is a protector of others. But who protects the child in me that never grew up, grew older? I have been in protection mode for myself lately, I can't afford another breakdown and I'm too close to that edge again. To effectively walk back from that, I either have to protect myself, or risk becoming someone who is unhappy again, while trying to protect those who can't do it for themselves. I choose to protect myself first. I'm working on it, I'll be back in Ativan mode again, but hopefully a much happier one who is more effective at handling the haters. I have people who are here to protect me. It's my survival package of a sort. But age-wise, we have to look at the retirement side of it as well. I have decisions to make and they take a lot of consideration to make, they affect the people who protect me, because I can't do it myself. The child is alive and well, it's my true identity. Memory loss does that to a person, they revert to the ways that worked in the past to protect themselves. But as my memory is getting better, so is the quality, the value of my life. That value is very much the sameness we all share. We all have far more in common than we have as differences. I guess that's the only way I can respond to any of you, to all of you. I still have a ways to go, everything was getting to me in harmful ways. But I have that one great truth that I hold on to, as I always have. We all have far more in common than we have as differences. Ativan
You, nor anyone else, has anything to be sorry for. I disagree with the actions of people at this time, nothing more.
People should be paying more attention on the effects of their comments, rather than expounding on personal beliefs not shared with everyone. There are certain beliefs that are not compatible with others and are best not tried to mix with gender beliefs. They can, in turn, denigrate others beliefs or their very identities. People have belief systems that are a important part of their identities, but theirs only. To try and enter such beliefs into the context of others beliefs in a conversation about gender, over runs and nulls the conversation to one of demanding others in turn defend their beliefs in kind. Anytime you use a personal belief system to enter into anothers stream or thoughts of their beliefs systems, they will defend them. They are, after all what our identities are. To push a personal belief system on to others is wrong. To use it in conversation, it has to be in context with the others belief systems as well.
This is what the major problem is this time with the forum. You cannot interject gender identity into a persons religious belief system, just as you can't interject religious belief systems into a persons gender identity. They are separate belief systems that stand on their own and to try and enter other belief systems into them, simply fouls both of the belief systems to the point of a breakdown in the conversation, it turns them into not ones of sharing, but ones that are about defending ones personal belief systems in the face of others beliefs.
It is I who am sorry that my emotions are too strong at this point. I don't want to cross anyone's line, it's not my place to do so. I am merely in a period of adjustment to a slightly different direction in my life. I'm sure that the few emails I've sent out have been shared to some extent or another.
The new forum at it's start was about the forest, an open forum without divides. It very quickly turned into the same divides and the chasm between them is growing. It has sections that you may as well call the cities, when the original idea was to do away with them and have simply the forest. The forest was always meant to have intersecting paths that people can meet and pass on by or converse if they want. The new forum already has the divisions for the cities started, and they will subdivide into groups that confine their thoughts there. The new forum was the place to get away from those same mistakes that Susan's has, it divides and in turn someone always tries to conquer. It's peoples nature to defend their identities, and when you give them a place to do it from, they defend that area. The forest doesn't have separate sections, it has paths that everyone walks on, everyone walks a path... It is in sharing those paths and the ensuing conversations about the sameness that counts as to what it started out as. The paths are the part of identities, the commonality. People can walk with each other, they can meet at the intersections of them... It is the place to get away from all the talk in everyday life, to share the common ideas that we all share, rather than bitch about the differences.
The divides are already the cause of differences of opinion, when there should be sharing of common ideas... It has and will continue to have discussions about differences, which everyone obviously has. What isn't obvious to most is the camouflage of sameness. It is far more important to use sameness in discussions, than to use differences. The former is what people have to share as useful information, not the obvious differences that all people see and know, bitch about. I can't stress this enough, that we have more in common than we have as differences. This isn't a statement of fact, it is an opportunity to reflect on how everyone's diversity can and is shared to make a better conversation and in turn, forest. Find the sameness, the commonality and you have the opportunity to share thoughts in common, rather than discuss and further build the divides. What we have in common with each other is so taken for granted, that it becomes hidden from ourselves. It is in the shadows, camouflaged. Find out what gender has in common for each and every person and you will have the forest back again. Why do you think I always talked about following those paths in the shadows? That is where the truths about ourselves are. Find them and share them, the information there is far more important than the obvious differences, the divides. I challenge you and the others to do just this: To stop the talk about the differences and have an intelligent discussion of why our commonalities are more important. Ativan
Like I said, these reflect a thought as a whole, with explanations. They are not points to ponder, except within the entirety of the comment themselves. The comments stand as a whole, each of them. I'd appreciate it if they weren't pulled apart and dissected for commenting on. If you disagree, it is your problem, not mine and I don't care to discuss the finer points of them. Be true to your own identity, and let others be true to there's without interference, it's the way of the forest, after all. Ativan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 23:43:59 GMT 8
I am actively working on starting new threads on the things that unite us.
And I am a mess at the moment. Which is no big deal, we have seen it many times. Just let me babble a bit to dump the stress out.
I am deeply grateful that Ativan is watching and posting.
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Post by Whisper on Jan 8, 2015 7:01:22 GMT 8
Thank you for sharing your email ativan.
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Post by Edge on Jan 10, 2015 11:29:05 GMT 8
I don't mind the religion section being here. It's a little off putting for there to be a religion section that is almost completely filled with Christian stuff, but that's only to be expected when Christianity is by far the dominant religion on the forum.
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Post by Anato on Jan 10, 2015 14:17:18 GMT 8
The Religion/spiritual boards should be left for everyone to participate in. Hiding them is pointless. If people are uninterested or triggered they just need to leave the section/thread.
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