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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 9:23:06 GMT 8
OK heres something that should stir us up a little.
So how much of the transgender experience for you has been primarily sexual and physical as opposed to wanting to be mentally and emotionally other than birthsex, or mentally and emotionally added to... being non binary....
I have to admit there is confusion for me personally here in this. MTF is VERY physical for me, the body wiring is all different from birthmale, but the conventional transgender stereotype of being a "mammas boy" or girly boy or wanting to play with dolls etc.... no.
Female core? Nope its different from that. Male core? Different from that too.
So, not male not female puts me what, andro. Yet, I am mtf, with social fluidity.
But the mtf physical side is quite sensual, sh'e is a bit wild, not jamie wild (HAH! Gotcha broomstick girl) but sh'e is quite the hungry woman in bed.
Crossdresser? Nope, not that. Actually I was diagnosed with that "your totally screwed" analysis as "not by definition a typical transsexual, but having many autogynephillic tendencies". On the hormone letter. The one that said I needed them. He could have written, "they are not a typical transsexual, they are really a potatoe vegetable, and we recommend hormones" and I'd be fine with it.
Lets see, that'll typically get everyone really pissed off. And I don't buy into the whole theory, I do however, believe that it could apply in part to me.
Ugly diagnosis. Explained by the shrink as just cya to get me my meds, a convienience tool.
I once posted that line and was immediately censured for it in another forum. Like I had said some poisonous thing. It was explained that it caused a war in that place.
Geez, its just one diagnosis, technically a nonbinary one at that.
Censorship isnt good is it.
So, however, just how much of your core identity or physical or social or all of the above, is self image of presentational need, how much is sex, how much is perception of what you are like girl, boy, neither, both.
Food for thought. I would hate to think I went through hell in transition to make myself a sex toy. There is so much more to it.
Ummm, its a pretty sexy one though....
Hormones did by the way eliminate a lot of those "autogynephilic tendencies". But I have them, certainly, I like mirrors in the bedroom.
Ok my dears, reactions? I feel like I lifted my skirt up here. Yuck.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 9:56:11 GMT 8
One more thing, I always forget something.
For those exposed to DES, does the stuff I wrote sound familiar?
I am betting that its not unusual for that causality of transgender.
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Post by Ayla on Dec 15, 2014 14:52:05 GMT 8
Trinity
For the first time I have deliberately chosen to not use SJ as you now seem to have changed and grown into a new and more comfortable and authentic being. Thread is quite a tough one as I have often thought that there are never impermeable boundaries. Like membrane, there is often an impact and interaction between different aspects of oneself. For example I think that it has been a convenience, an artifice if you like, to speak of gender as being entirely a 'social construct, when most now acknowledge that there is an interdependence if not influence of biology, psychology and social factors on the formation and sense of individual identity. Weighting may vary, and it may suit someone's paradigm more (e.g. feminism and a social construction perspective on gender) to focus on one item to the exclusion of others, but it is nevertheless a lens, a perspective and a conscious or unconscious bias of the observer.
So to your question - the relative importance of sexual/physical factors versus mental/emotional factors. First I will make the point that the convenience of analysing and considering gender identity, physical gender and gender presentation as separate, distinct and independent aspects of an individual is understandable but ignores the relationship between the physical and the emotional. For many the physical aspects will be the primary driver, for others the emotional aspects will compel a direction be taken, for yet others presentation may be more important and for another group one or more of these factors may be more critical and may change in priority over time or by situation.
Now I don't wish to conflate sexuality with gender but there is an emotional relationship ... but favouring discretion I will leave it alone in this thread!
So for me (I suspect I am unlikely to be representative of the broader NB population), mental/emotional factors were first and foremost in importance with respect to my transition (dysphoria was addressed by low dose hrt, with minor feminisation); however there is now a growing sense that I wish to be recognised and understood by others as NB (as a MAAB this is challenging and will require an andro presentation). On top of this I know that I have achieved the greatest tranquility, peace and sense of 'rightness' since starting low dose hrt and therefore increasingly wonder as to the benefits of increased hrt. With the much greater presentation amplitude available to MTFTNB I wonder whether this may in fact be a better path for me ... but this is progressive and is influenced by many factors - wife, social, professional, health etc
The question I can't answer until faced with it, is what happens if I meet a person, M, F or trans who recognises me, values and loves me for who I am. Will the physical side become more important - I suspect yes. Would this mean that sexual preference could shift - again I suspect yes, and that is in spite of my current and clear female/trans only attraction.
If I sound like a work in progress , it is because I am. If I sound uncertain and more than a tad theoretical or confused, then again it is because I am.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I am increasingly of the view that there is a fluidity and an interdependence around most aspects of my identity, my emotional and my physical concerns and needs.
Hope this answers your question. I think I just managed to confuse the heck out of me!
Safe travels
Aisla
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 18:55:09 GMT 8
Wow can you write. And the points are great. And saying I am more real is simply joyful for me. It's because in this forum I can let my hair down, get wild, and not edit, just feel and say, without having someone jump me.
The physical and body dysphoria is what drives my transition. The emotional stuff was an unexpected gift, the discovery of Sh'e and learning to love h'er another gift.
The social life of living trans is the third, the list keeps growing, deception and self deception is fading, and I take risks in here exposing who I really am.
Aisla dear do you have the slightest idea what kind of impact you had and have on my life?
Love from the wild fairy of the forest.
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Post by Ayla on Dec 15, 2014 19:03:40 GMT 8
Trinity
The admiration and impact is mutual. I said to two folk earlier today that I am now the happiest that I have ever been. Period. That I have found 50 such unique, strong and textured friends who share, support and challenge me on a daily basis is simply quite extraordinary.
The thing is, I think that we really do care for each other. We get each other and we share so much that we can't avoid feeling deeply and profoundly connected and affected.
Blessings my friend
Aisla
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 23:17:03 GMT 8
Trinity The admiration and impact is mutual. I said to two folk earlier today that I am now the happiest that I have ever been. Period. That I have found 50 such unique, strong and textured friends who share, support and challenge me on a daily basis is simply quite extraordinary. The thing is, I think that we really do care for each other. We get each other and we share so much that we can't avoid feeling deeply and profoundly connected and affected. Blessings my friend Aisla Yes I get that too! What really drives me bonkers is how most if not all of you overthink this stuff, sift and parse through it when I prefer the acronym KISS (keep it simple stupid) and prefer to see myself in terms as an integrated whole. When we look at an artist's water color or oil painting we see a beautiful picture, perhaps a forested mountain scene. The artist initially did a wash to lay down a backdrop, then he added the mountain, then a sky, then added trees on the mountain and capped it with snow. We don't parse all that out as we look at the picture, we see something beautiful and marvel at it in it's entirety. In their written works about autogynephilia Ray Blanchard and Anne Lawrence managed to piss off a vast number of trans women with their theory of "Men trapped in men's bodies." This was the result of overthinking by two people who each have an agenda based on their bias and sexual proclivities. I know Anne personally and have observed her attitudes and behavior towards other TG people for which she is continually under attack and rightly so. I'm blathering, hope I didn't insult anyone!
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Post by EchelonHunt on Dec 16, 2014 0:53:58 GMT 8
My physical sex certainly has a connection to my body in that needs to be properly aligned (female to semi-male ) I certainly view myself FTM in that physical/medical transitioning aspect but it isn't the core of my identity. Noooo way!
Sexual intercourse... How about no Gimme cuddles with the kitties and I'm all good.
My identity remains genderless, always. I have a mixture of fem-andro girl/boy and genderless swirling at my integrated core. The genderless aspect is the glue that binds everyone together, the fem-andro girl/boy aspects are more-or-less my feelings of gender fluidity. Those days where I shift between boy or girl in terms of feelings and presentation, despite remaining genderless deep within at the core. It originally carried confusion but I have learned to accept that I am increasingly fluid in my identity which is normal in itself... Adapting at its best.
Can I be called a shapeshifter?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 1:06:39 GMT 8
Trinity The admiration and impact is mutual. I said to two folk earlier today that I am now the happiest that I have ever been. Period. That I have found 50 such unique, strong and textured friends who share, support and challenge me on a daily basis is simply quite extraordinary. The thing is, I think that we really do care for each other. We get each other and we share so much that we can't avoid feeling deeply and profoundly connected and affected. Blessings my friend Aisla Yes I get that too! What really drives me bonkers is how most if not all of you overthink this stuff, sift and parse through it when I prefer the acronym KISS (keep it simple stupid) and prefer to see myself in terms as an integrated whole. When we look at an artist's water color or oil painting we see a beautiful picture, perhaps a forested mountain scene. The artist initially did a wash to lay down a backdrop, then he added the mountain, then a sky, then added trees on the mountain and capped it with snow. We don't parse all that out as we look at the picture, we see something beautiful and marvel at it in it's entirety. In their written works about autogynephilia Ray Blanchard and Anne Lawrence managed to piss off a vast number of trans women with their theory of "Men trapped in men's bodies." This was the result of overthinking by two people who each have an agenda based on their bias and sexual proclivities. I know Anne personally and have observed her attitudes and behavior towards other TG people for which she is continually under attack and rightly so. I'm blathering, hope I didn't insult anyone! I am cool with it Shan. I need to over think why I over think. Lol. As to a diagnosis of autogynephilia, I don't find that one a laughing matter at all. Not when it's a matter of record on my hormone letter. And yes, the writers are discredited. Kiss. Wish I could.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 1:47:22 GMT 8
Sooo.
A diagnosis of autogynephilia.
A need for a box to justify Nonbinary hormones?
Another hormone letter box?
With unclear soc for those who don't fit a transsexual diagnosis?
And I am most definitely a transsexual.
It sounds like rationalisation and over think at epic proportions due to a flawed soc and a clear need for my hormones.
My shrink always downplays the letter, yet I know he does not downplay some of the characteristics I have.
Is over think one long way of dealing with the mind blowing reality of being a transsexual on a full transition course?
What is rationalisation besides a coping mechanism for something the mind cannot process and needs time to accept?
We know the disastrous consequences of getting it wrong.
I wonder Shantel. Was it the only way to get me estrogen when I refused to lie and say I was a female trapped in a male body, while I am not?
I have seen transpeople with my diagnosis absolutely shredded for having it, as if they wanted this box to begin with.
And who the heck knows how it would be treated anyway? Srs? No srs, disqualified for not being girl inside guy?
I am just an mtf transsexual, it's that simple, to kiss and tell.
In many other forum I would be shark bait. But in here I choose transparency, I prefer staying both alive and mentally sound.
So dear Shan, darling your point is well made. I think the problem is the cistem.
Blessings dear. Talking freely is not feather ruffling, it's truth speaking. If we can't handle truth we are screwed.
Love you Shantel.
Trinity
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 2:35:49 GMT 8
I see your point hon, and honestly I don't identify with either binary and would never qualify under any of the SOC's set parameters anyway. I side-stepped all of that when I decided what I needed and found some very liberal MD's who were willing to do my blood screen and write a prescription back in the day. I don't think any of those psycho-babble articles by self described experts really fully represent any of us realistically. But hey, we do what we do to meet our needs and accomplish our goals.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 3:42:12 GMT 8
To me it's not a contraversy. Most people see a connection between male and female according the whether or not they have a vagina or penis. So to most people gender and sex are one in the same because their minds are connected to their bodies. We are different though because there seems to be a disconnect between our minds and bodies, so gender identity for us is way more than the equipment we are born with.
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Post by Kelly on Dec 16, 2014 7:48:17 GMT 8
I'll leave the topic of AGP alone, apart from to say that it's a very flawed concept.
It became clear to my therapist fairly early on, that despite my protests of being binary MTF, I was in fact non-binary. I'm still not sure that I have a diagnosis of any kind, all my hormone letter said was that my therapist considered me 'a good candidate for hormonal reassignment'.
The world sees me as a woman. It's not quite 100% accurate, but it's a whole lot closer than being seen as a man ever was. Honestly, I'm just a Kelly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 8:16:11 GMT 8
I'll leave the topic of AGP alone, apart from to say that it's a very flawed concept. It became clear to my therapist fairly early on, that despite my protests of being binary MTF, I was in fact non-binary. I'm still not sure that I have a diagnosis of any kind, all my hormone letter said was that my therapist considered me 'a good candidate for hormonal reassignment'. The world sees me as a woman. It's not quite 100% accurate, but it's a whole lot closer than being seen as a man ever was. Honestly, I'm just a Kelly. Well it's nice to meet "a Kelly". I'm just "a Jamie". Psychology is flawed in some areas. Hell the whole of science is flawed. You are either looking for a grant and bowing at the feet of the almighty. Or you go on your own which is nearly impossible uless you are at least a millionaire. And gender identity is way deeper than sexual orientation or sex itself. I have a funny feeling that if one studied or researched or investigated gender identity it would lead to other questions and mysteries. I mean, I know and feel. But can I explain it? No.
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Post by Leena on Dec 22, 2014 13:02:34 GMT 8
Why does one's sex and identity have to match? Physically, I am fully male, and while I'd love to be fully female instead, the option of being made to look like a female down there and possibly not be orgasmic is not all that appealing. I am a very sexual person, and I am not willing to give that up just to look like a woman down there. I'm not even willing to go on HRT for the much the same reasons, and that many of the effects of HRT can be achieved through other means. More and more, I see that I am just have a feminine personality that happens to have a male body, and there isn't anything wrong with that. As a kid, I was just the MAAB counterpart of a tomboy, a veronicagirl, as I sometimes call it, but society has a lot more issues with veronicagirls, than it does with tomboys, for what ever stupid reason, so that caused to repress certain things. Whatever. I'm also starting to think my fluidity stems from the fact that I am fully physically male, and I do partially identify with that in some ways, but in other ways I do not, and that it's actually somewhat predictable, though not totally controllable, and overall actually wonderful.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 19:40:30 GMT 8
Veronicagirl...short answer they don't have to match.
I think it's great that youuhave that comfort to live in your body as you do.
For me it is impossible. Hrt is essential or my mind cracks.
I refer to my core as not male not female
I think I fit the DES model exactly. Womb transitioned.
I keep learning, it keeps getting more authentic. Lot of layers of abuse to peel of, the truth for me is underneath all that.
Hrt, therapy, and the people here, And my family, were lifesaving. I needed everyone or I would be another tragedy.
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